This entry may instantly be labeled as heresy or apostasy by some but I want everyone to know that I am honestly seeking the Lord’s will on this issue. I truly pray for guidance.
Like most of the Christians I know in California, I voted yes on Proposition 8 because I want to protect marriage as it is in the Bible and I believe that is the way the Lord wants it to be. I also want to protect this country from its current moral downward spiral, but is that what Christ has called us to do? Where in the bible does it state that we are to create laws to govern what nonbelievers do with their lives? What did Prop 8 accomplish? I also question to what extent we are to hold on to what we have. These are the questions that I need to have answered.
I stated in another blog of mine that, in essence, the United States is going to heck in a hand basket and as all the great civilizations before us, we are following a set pattern that leads to our destruction. That pattern is:
1. Nation is started humbly.
2. Nation becomes powerful.
3. Nation becomes wealthy.
4. Nation becomes proud.
5. Nation becomes hedonistic.
6. Nations values become impotent.
7. Nation becomes unimportant or nonexistent.
I don’t entirely disagree with what I wrote before. I believe that this pattern exists and I believe that we are following it. I don’t want to see what the United States will be like in 20 years but that is not for me to decide. The Lord will keep me alive to show me what he wants to show me.
My wife and I had a great discussion last night about what Christ wants from us and how we are supposed to go about living that out. We talked about how we are to love our neighbors, how we are to interact with them, how we are not to judge them but to judge those inside the church as is stated in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. Paul states ‘I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”’
That seems pretty straight forward to me. We are to judge Christian believers, not nonbelievers. But here is an issue that I have to deal with. I didn’t view myself as judging them and honestly I still don’t. Unfortunately, I do feel as though they think I am judging them because of my vote. Though I don’t condone the lifestyle they live, I understand that they are still God’s creations and he will instruct them to the extent that they are willing to receive instruction. And to a large extent, how willing they are to accept God’s instruction depends upon how they view those of us who claim to be “God’s children”. If we act harshly towards them, why should they accept us when we tell them to repent?
Though it is out of love we tell them about repentance and sin, we must always remember do so with an extreme understanding of where they are coming from. When we approach them, we need to remember that it is God that changes them, not us. Paul is a great example of this. He would mold himself to the people he was trying to reach, not in a moral or ethical standpoint, but a relational standpoint. 1Corinthians 9:19-23 states “Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.”
So what has Christ called us to do? Romans 12:14-18 tells us “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.” I can’t find anywhere in the New Testament (Matthew through Revelation) that says that we are to govern and create laws to stop nonbelievers from sinning. And even though we did pass Prop 8, are we preventing sin? Absolutely not! There is no less sin of any type being practiced today then there was before the election. It did not stop the action, just the legal allowance for marriage.
So what did Prop 8 accomplish? In a word, hatred. I believe in the United States, especially California, we are on the brink of a new persecution and backlash against Christians. Sadly we are not known for what we love (Jesus) but what we hate (sin) and this world sees us as being attackers of their lifestyle. Thus, they are turning to attack us back because they believe they have the right to live the way they want. I am not going to get into the obvious argument because as soon as I tell them that they can’t live the way that they want, they are going to tell me that that I can’t live the way that I want. I just want to say that if we attack them, they will attack us back even harder.
So how do we change this negative viewpoint? I believe that we need to show them the love of Christ. Did Jesus ever condemn anyone of their sin? Yes. But only the religious leaders who were not showing love to the people they were supposed to guide. He invited the common sinners to himself and thus they were changed by His love. Jesus loved and instructed them. He ate meals with and taught them. He showed them love and brought them into the fold of God. It is mainly the strict religious teachers who he reprimanded. Luke 18:10-14 states ‘”Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”’
Do we exalt ourselves or others? So what makes us think we’re so special? Are we better than a thief or a prostitute? Not according to James. James 2:10-13 tells us that we are all sinners and guilty of committing all sins. It says ‘For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!’ Does this not state that we are to show mercy as we are also sinners? I believe it does.
And we definitely shouldn’t forget who we were before Jesus called us to be members of his family! If you were anything like I was, you were not fighting the temptations of the world but diving into them head-first. So again I ask, “What makes us think we’re so special? Are we better than a thief or a prostitute?” I say that if we separate ourselves from them that we are worse than those who are still caught up in their sin. If we do not love those around us, we are guilty of the second most important command God gave us… Matthew 22:37-39 tells us “Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” In 1 Corinthians 13:1 -3 Paul tells us “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.”Do you want to be a person rambling and just making noise but not affecting anyone? I don’t. I want people to listen to and respect me when I profess Jesus to them because they can’t respect Jesus if they don’t respect the person telling them.
To gain this respect, I believe we must do the following in this order:
• Live with love for the people that we want to reach.
• Live in a manner that isn’t hypocritical. Admit that you are a sinner and show His grace to others.
• Profess Christ and His forgiveness.
• Teach about repentance and the value in living
Yes, I understand that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong. Leviticus 18:22 states “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 tells us “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” But these words do not teach us not to love those who practice these acts. I know many people in the church who are homosexual, thieves, greedy, drunkards and engage in premarital sex. Yet they do not receive the same criticism of those outside the church. We love those we should judge and we judge those we should love. This is so wrong.
After consideration and prayer, I believe that I was wrong about Proposition 8. Do I believe that my vote had any real significance? Not really. Even if it did, I can’t take it back. If my vote offends you, please understand that I am still searching for the way that I should approach this issue. Pleasing the Lord is my desire. Pleasing man comes after the Lord but if I don’t live in peace with my neighbors I’m not pleasing my Lord.
One Ping to “Prop 8, Was I wrong?”
2 Responses to “Prop 8, Was I wrong?”
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1. Bobby Nichols Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 3:07 pmO Timothy…
I applaud and am grateful for your initial stand. Do not waver.
I answer after much prayer and meditation to serve thee.
Aside from what the no on 8 people would tell you, or have you believe, a YES vote from the faithful was a vote of love.
One of the duties of a follower of Christ is to obey Him. We can do so by trusting and following the council of our church leaders.
Being a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I found unwavering faith in my church’s modern day scripture from 1995 titled “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” which may be found at: http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html
I’m grateful for modern day prophets and seers and revelators that know more what is best for His flock than I.
This is a time to call others to repentance which we have demonstrated through promoting the moral view; and though the faithful may not win this earthly fight, due to the craftiness of men, we the faithful are ever being tested and sifted upon the road to Salvation.
A poem I wrote a while back:
“The Myrmidon”
Witness
the myrmidon
not as
grazing sheep
but a love
of silent
service12-10-2006
The myrmidon, a word borrowed from the Greek, being the most faithful of followers.
I would exhort you with 1Timothy 6:17 -…
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.Trust in that God’s will be done. Continue to serve Christ, unwaveringly, and in doing so serve our fellow brothers and sisters; for we as humble servants of Christ cannot see the end from the beginning as He can.
I pray you find comfort and some answers in my humble response.
Yours in Christ,
Bobby Nichols -
2. admin Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 3:52 pmBobby,
I thank you for your well thought out response. I want you to know that, though I DO NOT support gay marriage, I am done opposing it. If it comes up again, I simply will not vote on it. Many a person has cited Christians as being the main reason that they don’t or can’t believe in Christ. I, in fact, used to have a tagline that read “Jesus, save me from your followers.”
I am fully convinced that you are correct. If the faithful followers are just “grazing sheep” nothing will ever be accomplished for the Kingdom. But if we are actively loving those around us, including those who do not yet believe, we will win far more converts to the fold of Christ. By loving, I do mean giving both gentle and tough love. But, I no longer believe that legislation is the way to give that tough love. That tough love must be given in a setting where there is room for discussion of sin, love, forgiveness, righteousness, and how they are all woven together by Christ.
I had been told of Christ’s love many times, but always with a Bible hitting me in the head. Finally, when someone loved me enough to be gentle and nurturing, I accepted a love that I never before knew existed. I am out, not to ruin this world or encourage acts of sin, but to tell sinners that they are loved and once they accept that love, they must return the love by repenting of their previous acts of sin and rebellion.
I want to show everyone the love that Jesus Christ has shown me. I want to love everyone whether they deserve it or not. I want people to turn from their sin because they want to and they realize it is wrong, not because I am telling them that they have to.
I hope you understand where I am coming from.
In Christ’s love,
Tim















January 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am
[...] I am often told to change a sentance or even remove entire paragraphs. That happened a lot in my Prop 8 Was I Wrong post. Whenever I got ahead of myself, I was corrected and told to fix what was wrong. And that is a [...]